Why You’re Working Too Hard for Too Little (And How to Fix It!)

Episode Transcript

Carly Ries: Are you running your business, or is your business running you? In this episode of the Aspiring Solopreneur, we're sitting down with Mike Moll, a former marketing agency owner who traded burnout for freedom, and he's sharing exactly how you can do the same. Mike spills the secrets for scaling without stress, why most solopreneurs undercharge by 50%, and the number one mindset shift that could change the game for your business. So if you want to know the real reason your pricing isn't working and how to fix it, be sure to tune in. You're listening to The Aspiring Solopreneur, the podcast for those just taking the bold step or even just thinking about taking that step into the world of solo entrepreneurship.

My name is Carly Ries, and my co host Joe Rando and I are your guides to navigating this crazy, but awesome journey as a company of one. We take pride in being part of LifeStarr, a digital hub dedicated to all aspects of solopreneurship that has empowered and educated countless solopreneurs looking to build a business that resonates with their life's ambitions. We help people work to live, not live to work. And if you're looking for a get rich quick scheme, this is not the show for you. So if you're eager to gain valuable insights from industry experts on running a business the right way the first time around, or want to learn from the missteps of solopreneurs who've paved the way before you, then stick around.

We've got your back because flying solo in business doesn't mean you're alone. Well, Mike, I just love your story, and I feel like we should just start with the beginning. Why did you decide to transition from running a successful marketing agency to coaching solopreneurs? Kind of a different stick.

Mike Moll: Passion. Passion. Passion. I built my agency out of this desperate need to leave this corporate environment that I was in. I didn't even really know what I was gonna stumble on until I found it, and I ran it for a total of thirteen years.

And, honestly, by year eight, nine, like, I was kinda done, and I had employees who were, like, my significant other and my family members. So I kept it longer than I wanted to, and I just had no desire, no passion to keep running it. But you know, the coaching thing kinda really lit me up, and finally, I had the courage to separate myself and move out of it.

Carly Ries: And was that because you yourself had burnout, or did you just lose interest in the marketing world? What was it that you were like, time to go?

Mike Moll: Yeah. I think as a marketing agency, you're only as good as your best performing last month. You know? And I think the other thing is that with the market being so flooded with vendors, not to say the coaching market's not saturated, but with marketing, it's like, oh, well, this person told me they could do this for me on TikTok, and then this person said I could blow up on my YouTube. And there's only so much budget and bandwidth that people have for marketing.

So there is this constant, fighting off of other ideas even when, we were very calculated in how we showed profitability and performance. So, we are making people money, and they were still like, well, I saw this video, and I think we gotta move to TikTok now. And, I just kinda got exhausted by the conversation, to be honest.

Carly Ries: Yep. We agree with that. Well, so we're joking because you're like, well, it's not that the coaching world isn't saturated, but you obviously have something that sets you apart, which is why you're continuing to do this now. So what strategies do you recommend for solopreneurs who want to scale their businesses without compromising on that work life balance I was alluding to? And how do you help them avoid burnout?

Mike Moll: I think it starts with vision. I think a lot of problems with solopreneurs is that they worked at a company before, and they took that company's formula and made it their job now. Or they looked at a competitor, and they're like, well, this is how they do it, so I just do it in the similar way, then I have a business. And a lot of people don't start with how the business can serve their lifestyle, and they don't even really think about, what do I want this thing to look like? And so what ends up typically happening is we convolute our service in a massive way. Well, I should add these extra things and these bonuses and these guarantees, and it's gonna make me do a whole bunch of extra work, but maybe people won't leave. And the truth is you can do a lot less and charge a lot more with your current service. I've audited thousands of different offers in my day, and, most people are undercharging by 50% and doing 30% more work than they need to. So for me, it's starting with that.

It's like, let's actually just make the current thing simpler and more profitable before you decide to scale. Because the truth is, when I was doing sales coaching primarily, people like, oh, everyone's telling me to grow as fast as possible. The money will take care of it all. But I'm like, you're not motivated to sell more of this current thing. You don't even really like the current thing you're selling and the way you're doing it.

So, let's fix that first. And that's been just a huge game changer for me.

Carly Ries: Yeah. Absolutely. We always say there's difference between running a successful business and one that you enjoy, and it sounds like you have a good, idea of how to kinda merge those two.

Joe Rando: And I love how you started with how people don't think about what their goals are when they're starting the business. you know, as I've said numerous times, I have been in the unenviable position of running a business that I started that I did not like running, which I think you obviously did too from what you just said. So it's not a good place to be, and it can feel like having a tiger by the tail. So starting with that just makes so much sense.

Mike Moll: Yeah. I mean, my 2022 is a perfect example. I was in 38 cities in 10 countries on three continents, and I was just, like, wherever the heck I wanted to be all year. Now I was exhausted for that for the travel reasons, but, like, I just got to crack open my laptop, take a few meetings a week, and, it was amazing to go explore the world like that and to to build that. But, that doesn't come if you're on one hour meetings with every client twice a week.

You know what I mean? Like, you have to really design how you're gonna operate or else, you're not gonna have that flexibility.

Joe Rando: Right.

Carly Ries: I have to ask. What was your favorite place that year?

Mike Moll: Budapest or Cape Town, South Africa. Both great for different reasons.

Carly Ries: My sister-in-law did a remote year and traveled everywhere, and Cape Town was, the top of her list too. So Yeah. Submitted it to my list, you guys.

Mike Moll: Do it.

Carly Ries: Well, it sounds like you had clear goals. Travel was one of them. Can you share a pivotal moment in your career that shaped how you approach business and how you advise others?

Mike Moll: Yeah. Absolutely. So this is 2018 or '19. I was still in Toronto, so somewhere around there. A friend of mine who I consider to be more successful, he was like, pick something to launch, and he was monetizing it within a month.

Like, this guy is just a monster. And we were out just walking around near the distillery district. I'll never forget it. He was doing a half day workshop for a big organization. Office Depot would be the equivalent in The United States.

And he was training, like, 30 people on how to use LinkedIn outreach for basically building a pipeline and doing it in a unique way, in an interesting way. And it was a half day workshop, big group, and he was like, yeah. you know, you would typically charge, like, 1,700, but, I'd love to get it to, like, 2,200. And my brain just went, wait.

No. That's missing a zero, bro. What are you talking about? Like, to a company that size? so I took a step back, and, again, this is someone who I thought was, running a killer business. And he's my best friend to this day, but I said, well, what happens if, 10% of the people that come to this thing pay attention to you, and then they deploy just 25% of how what you teach them?

He's like, probably, a hundred to 175 thousand in extra revenue. I'm like, cool. So why are you $2,000? How are you not 10,000 like, the price is a joke. And, I said it with love, but you know, he repriced it at 9,500, and they were like, oh, yeah.

Of course. I'm like, it was probably still too little, but it was that moment of, oh, people that are, selling a lot of stuff don't have a vision of, how to charge or how to create value or express the value of what they do. And I did like, I picked it apart in one minute, and I was like, oh, I guess that's because I've worked with people with offers for as long as I had with, a little bit of, strategy work and the agency. I've seen so many offers. So I think to share that perspective, I was like, I bet you there are more people like him that are not doing the pricing right.

Carly Ries: Well, so let's piggyback off of that. What I mean, that is one of the number one things we hear is people don't know how to price their services. So now that you have that information, you have that experience, what do you advise solopreneurs to do in terms of pricing?

Mike Moll: Yeah. I mean, every different service prices differently. Like, obviously, a marketing engagement is different than building a website because you can attach different KPIs and different results. But here's where you have to start and where most people neglect. If you don't believe that your product and your service is worth more, like, really, really, really believe it, you can't change the price.

So most people will be like, okay. Well, it's that time. I should, increase my price by 10%. That's the thing we do. But in order to make a big difference, I like to say, what does this look like if we double the price right now?

Because a lot of people are really that low. And the problem is you can't just be like, yeah. I'm gonna do it. Mike told me to do it, so I'm gonna do it. Because subconsciously, if you don't believe that there's enough value in it, that will come out.  your subconscious will block you in your sales conversations from being able to create those transactions.

So you actually have to have a belief. You have to have a moment where you're like, oh, wow. I'm way undercharging. And so the way that I do that, I'll take thirty seconds. I'll give you the Coles notes version of the exercises.

I make this chart. It's like four vertical lines, usually curved, but for the simplicity of listening to this vertical lines. And in those columns, you have one month, three month, six month, twelve months. And I want you to close your eyes, and I want you to picture what happens to this organization that you're gonna sell your service to if they don't solve the problem with a vendor who's great at what they do just like you in those periods of time. Right?

So how does it impact them, like, financially, from a confidence, from an operational standpoint? There are a lot of different categories we think about. And so, what you realize is after half a year, after twelve months, if they didn't find the right vendor, maybe they hired the wrong person three times, and now they have no belief that it can be fixed, no progress. it's still a problem that's hampering them, or they don't find anybody and their growth stalls. And now they don't have any predictability in their revenue or, you know, million different things come up.

But actually envisioning, a year from now, if this person doesn't solve this problem that I solve, what happens to the business? And the impacts are profound. As the time goes on, this gets worse and worse, and it gets to the point where, some people just go out of business because they haven't solved it. So when you realize the prolonged pain that comes with not solving this problem, it really, illuminates, well, if I'm great at it and if I can fix this thing in thirty days, like, I'm gonna stop all these future problems for the person. That usually is a big spark to create that belief.

Joe Rando: Now I have a question because I think that's really cool. I love the thinking, and it's something, certainly, a lot of solopreneurs aren't doing. But it seems to me there's another step which is making sure that the prospect understands these kinds of things. Right? So it's not just getting them in your head.

It's then getting in your head and getting it into their head. Any thoughts on that?

Mike Moll: Yeah. So part of the process that we do is a series of exercises that unpacks the what the WTF moment in you. And then the next thing is, okay. What are the most hard hitting things? How do we expand on them?

And then how do we express them in marketing? For example, you can't say, well, if you don't solve the marketing problem, you're probably gonna take this stress and frustration home. You're gonna lose sleep. You might not be as connected to your family. You might be a little bit distracted from parenting.

You can't be like, hey. If you don't solve this marketing with my service, you're gonna be a bad dad. You can't do that.

Carly Ries: I mean, you could.

Mike Moll: I don't think gonna work. You could try. So what we do is take those expressions, which are truth, but we tell them in the fashion of, how other people would experience it.

So, stories about how other clients experiences, whether it's through, a case study or a testimonial. So some of the stuff you can't directly put into the marketing, but you could say, hey. I've worked with people just like you, and what they found was they got this result, but they also realized, hey. When I was at home, this is what... so you can tell that story through how other people have experienced it, and that's usually, enough for them to connect the dots. I'm like, oh, I don't wanna be like that guy that you

were working with. but, yes, the point is we do try and find the top five future pains, and then how do we express those in our marketing, whether

it's something

we could just put there, like, hey. if you don't have consistent leads, you're not gonna be able to predict revenue. You're not gonna be able to, you know, grow the business. Like, those are very obvious, but the ones that are more nuanced and more personal, we tend to tell those through the stories of others.

Joe Rando: Yeah. I'm just curious because I found that a lot of solopreneurs, because they're very good at what they do, but they're not necessarily salespeople and maybe have never done sales, but they're very uncomfortable with kind of bringing up pain points because they feel like it's mean or something, I don't know. And do you find that a lot of them need to be coached into going into pain points with prospects?

Mike Moll: Yeah. So here's what happens with people. They attach sales to this, like, what you see in the movies, or, these bad reputation,

Joe Rando: these car sales. Always be closing.

Mike Moll: They associate it with that, and so they think that having the person express these pain points is a form of manipulation. So that's where they go. And so, my counter to that and it's hard to dive into in thirty seconds, but if I were to summarize it, it's like, if what you do solves those future pains for somebody and you genuinely know that you're good at that thing, it is your responsibility to get the person to move forward with you. That's how I genuinely feel. And because if you don't, what happens? Because especially in marketing, we have people come to us when we had the agency that were like, listen. I've tried three different companies. We did three three month contracts. We're down 15. I don't even know if I believe this can work anymore. Well, if you know and if you vet the client properly and you know what you do can fix that, then it's your responsibility to not let them drift off to the next problem because someone will sell them something. So knowing that, it becomes your responsibility to chime in and help. Now if the person doesn't align perfectly with, your ideal customer or the type of person you're great at working with, fine.

Then let them go. That's also your responsibility is not to sign people you can't help, but equally when you can, you gotta move forward. So that comes with people need to feel like you understand them, and they need to feel like you know, they need to express if you can get them to, like, say out loud something that they didn't really wanna talk about, and they're like, oh, man. This person understands me. People buy when they feel understood.

Right? And so you expressing that you understand where they're at through different mechanisms is very powerful in sales.

Joe Rando: Absolutely. I always think, if you're driving down the road, you see somebody with one of their tires is wobbling on their car, you go, well, I don't wanna bring up bad news to them. You know? It's like, if you're a good person, you try to get up next to them and go, hey. Pull over. Your wheel's gonna fall off. but people see people in this situation in their work, in their lives, or whatever and feel bad about about bringing it up. So I love this. I love what you're saying, all of it.

Carly Ries: Mhmm. Well and you talk about, we were just saying you need to have an offer that actually solves the problems of your audience that other people failed their responsibilities in. I'm not sure if I said that sentence right, but you get what I'm saying. So how do you help your clients develop a dream offer, let's say, that attracts their ideal customers so they can move forward with that, response?

Mike Moll: Yeah. So the offer itself, I think, actually comes secondary to defining who it is that you're going to help. And I think where a lot of people get stuck is they're like, well, I know how to do Google Ads. So somebody that needs Google Ads is my person. Right?

So that's how we're gonna do it. And never I've never been a proponent of, you need to niche it down to, like, you don't have to be the Google Ads guy for plumbers, but you should be, the Google Ads guy for, home service biz , so I was the Google Ads guy for boring businesses. So if you didn't need content and if you didn't need a brand to sell like, law firms fell into the same bucket as roofers because nobody cares the about story of the law firm. It's like, I need a divorce attorney. Are you that?

Great. I focus on Google Ads for boring businesses, but it's really important to make sure that they're the right type of person that you can help. And so what I do with my clients is I have them define those in at least a 10 checklist. So for me, it's like, do they even understand the back end? Are they even capable of getting new leads? a lot of home service companies, I'm like, cool. If we were to double the amount of phone calls that you get, what would happen? And they're like, they'd all go to Jim's voice mail. Cool. when you get a lead now, where does that go?

Oh, it goes into Tony's Gmail account. Like, who's tracking this? Is there a CRM? Do we know what would happen right now if I tripled your leads intake in, volume right now? And a lot of companies, they couldn't handle it.

And so for me, it's like, yes. You could do it, but is it actually gonna benefit them? we actually have a vetting process for, let's make sure that this client is someone that you can actually help and that their existing infrastructure is set up for success. Because if you're not gonna build them the CRM and you're not gonna train their sales team so there's, you know, selling more than 5% of deals, like, what are you getting in there and doing marketing for? So I actually think that's more important.

Joe Rando: That's awesome.

Mike Moll: Yeah.

Joe Rando: That's awesome. Because you're so right. It's like if the infrastructure is not in place, you're just spinning your wheels and then you don't look good.

You don't look good to the customer because, well, the sales didn't go up. So great. Yeah.

Mike Moll: And a byproduct of that is when you actually ask them these questions and they're like, oh, no. I don't have that. I don't have that. I actually say, hey. Listen. I don't think that you're ready for this. Here's why. I'll do it in a very kind way. if you can go fix these two things, you can come back and almost, reapply to work with us. And what happens is a lot of solopreneurs with a service look up to the climate, like, oh my god.

Please say yes. don't reject me. Say yes. let me in. And when you start making your client apply to you, for the benefit of both you and the client, it actually changes the dynamic.

A lot of my customers have their clients at the end of the call say, like, hey. I would love to work with you if you'd take me on, if you would have me. The client is saying that to them. Right? And it's again, people are like, oh, is that manipulative?

No. Because if you jump into a working relationship with someone and they're not set up for success, they're gonna blame you, and they're gonna be a headache, and they're gonna be a lot of extra correspondence and where it's not fun. So, why are we doing it?

Carly Ries: Yeah. Well, so let's say you've identified your audience. We're talking about just creating that dream offer. So once you have them, how do you advise, create that once they know who they're specifically targeting?

Mike Moll: Absolutely. To keep it concise, whatever the shortest point from a to b is. So from I am stuck on this thing to I now have the outcome that I want. Most people get stuck listing a whole bunch of deliverables. Well, here's the 30 things.

We're gonna do the keyword research, and we're gonna set up the account, and then we're gonna cook up the analytics. And that I mean, nobody cares. Right? So you need to develop a three to five step process, and that process the name of each process needs to be number one, benefit to the customer. This is how we do it.

And that needs to take them through a very simple way that they understand within their own ecosystem of how this is gonna work for them. So if you're speaking in your own jargon, in your language, like, you know, we're gonna set up the Google CPC campaigns. They're like, I don't know. I don't know what that is. Right?

But, what is the outcome for the customer, and let's label that with a step, and it should be a three to five step process. And so the offer itself should be a story. It should be these are the three step you can brand it. You should brand it. Process from getting you from here to there.

And when they hear it, it should be the natural progression for them in the way that the customer would need to understand it. That's what it is. I think where a lot of people get stuck is, oh, well, these other people talk about, a guarantee or, you know, going into the ad account, seven days a week and doing all this other crap. Like, the person buying from you only cares if you're gonna get them to the finish line. So what is the four step process that takes them to the finish line and nothing else?

No more. As simple and linear as possible.

Carly Ries: Yeah. It's so smart. You seem like you have so many processes in place. You've thrown the word out a few times. You've alluded to it in sales, marketing.

What processes do solopreneurs need to put in place to be more efficient with their businesses?

Mike Moll: Every single one. So I have a video that shows every single thing that I do, and then my VA, like, my VA runs my entire life now. And so here's the truth. There are going to be within an ecosystem of your business, there's gonna be at least 50 different things that need to be done to make it function. Right?

And the likelihood is that there's gonna be three or four that you're gonna be great at. And there's gonna be a decent amount that you're mediocre at, and there's gonna be a lot that you're crappy at. So if you don't download your brain, if you don't record these processes and then start to delegate that work, you're just gonna constantly be slowed down by tasks that you wanna procrastinate on or that take you way longer than they should. So I actually think the easiest way to do it is, the next time you're going to do a process, okay, this is how we upload everything into the client portal. This is how we fill out the contract and send it off.

This is how we just record it. Even if it takes forty five minutes of you on Loom or on whatever tool, just record it and talk out loud as if somebody is, learning from you, and just let that forty five minute thing be your process video for now. That's not ideal. You want it to be more concise, but just get it out of your brain so that someone else can come in and do it if you suck at it. That's, the most basic way to start.

And a lot of people are like, well, then I gotta, make sure everything's aligned and get all the screens ready. I'm like, no. No. if you're paying somebody, especially from overseas, like, a smaller amount of money per hour than you, if they have to watch a one hour long video and you droning on explaining how something works, they're gonna learn all of your thought processes and how everything works from that. It doesn't have to be a concise five minute video.

Just get it into a video so that you can get it off your plate.

Carly Ries: You are not the first person that has talked about how VAs have changed their lives and made their businesses the most efficient. Do you have any quick tips on how you can find a VA for people that are listening?

Mike Moll: Yeah. So I think and any anyone can tell you the different websites. You can find them. My advice with VAs is there's no such thing as a unicorn. So there's no such thing who's your creative director, and your video editor, and your copywriter, and your calendar manager, and your inbox.

It's not a thing. So if you took a list of every single task that you do, and you were to assign a value to them, whether it's a $1 value task, $10 value task, hundred dollar value task, a thousand dollar value task, the hundred and the thousands ones are probably the stuff that you gotta keep doing. But, following up with this and filling in this document and booking your flights, those are all 1 and $10 tasks related to how they move the business forward. You need to bucket those by category. Is it an administrative thing?

Is it a finance thing? Is it a creative thing? Is it design thing? And you need to find all the ones that you hate the most and where which bucket do they most fall into. For me, it's detail oriented administrative things.

Like, when I'm left to book my own travel, I show up to the airport on days where I don't have a flight. I'm terrible at that stuff. When I follow ups in my calendar, filling out forms, chasing down documents, all that stuff is, like, I'm very bad at it. I'll do one thing one time. I completely forget it exists. you're not gonna have someone who's good at managing your inbox and someone who's good at editing videos. It's highly unlikely. So find the bucket that's giving you the most pain and make sure all those tasks are similarly aligned so that when you bring someone on, they can succeed in that role. That's how I would think about it.

Carly Ries: Yep. That's really good advice. wasn't planning on asking you anything related to that, but it seems like something people ask about a lot. So, if you could help solopreneurs create a sustainable long term business strategy, what piece of advice would you give them?

Mike Moll: Make your current service as profitable as possible, both financially and on time spent. So extract the value and charge what it's worth. I hate that word. Charge a premium price. If you're great at something, you should be charging a premium price because you're probably solving a premium problem for somebody.

And then operationally, back end wise, you should ask yourself, what would every task that I do look like if it took half the amount of time and half the amount of energy? I think what a lot of people do is they try and grow, grow, grow, grow, grow without simplifying how they operate, and then they get burnt out because, well, if it's gonna take me thirty hours a month to manage each client. How many clients can you take? Whereas, if you can get that down to ten hours per client, even if it's just you, that still gives you a lot of bandwidth. Right?

So get to premium pricing, simplify your back end first before you worry about scale, and that's where I'd start. And then you can kinda decide. Like, a lot of people that I work with, you know, I had a guy that was charging, $1,300 to do 12 emails a month plus the automation plus he was basically, in charge of the company's marketing, email marketing, like, split testing. I mean, what he was doing was crazy. And so we just got him to a point where, like, cool.

Instead of 1,300, it was 6,000 plus 3% of top line. So he actually cut his client base in half and quadrupled his revenue, and he's like, okay. That's it for me. Like, I don't need more. I don't want more. we built it already. He's got four kids. You know? He wants to hang out with his kids.

But it also in saying that, you know, it starts with the vision. Why are you chasing scale? Because that's what you hear people talking about. what do you want?

How do you wanna spend the time? And then building out something that actually makes sense with that.

Joe Rando: Amen.

Carly Ries: And that was a correct answer, Mike. well, Mike, I feel like we could listen to you talk all day. I'm so excited that you're coming on for our next solopreneur success session, Shameless Plug.

Joe Rando: Probably be over by the time this is aired, though.

Carly Ries: Oh, shoot. Right.

Mike Moll: Go watch the replay.

Carly Ries: Go join one of our premium platforms and watch the replay. But selfishly, I'm just so happy you are doing that. Mike, what is your favorite quote about success? We ask all of our guests this question. I'm so curious as to what yours is.

Mike Moll: Yeah. I think success is super, widely and subjectively defined. So the thing that I always lean on when it comes to building offers, when it comes to deciding on what I'm gonna do, it's around selling. And I mentioned it a little bit earlier, which is people buy when they feel understood, not when they understand you. And it's a critical reminder even with me, like, when I'm launching something new or I've got a page going up, I'm reading through it, and I'm like, is this written in my language or in their language?

Are the benefits written so that I sound super smart, or is it written in a way where it's gonna be like, oh my god. I need that. I want that. And you know, it spills over into so many different facets. So for me, the one I focus on.

Joe Rando: This is my one of my Post it notes.

Carly Ries: What's in it for them?

Joe Rando: What's in it for them? And that's, something that we have to remember. And people don't. they know it, and then they go write something, and it's from their perspective, it's so hard.

Carly Ries: It is. Well, Mike, I feel like you've dangled a carrot in this episode. There are probably some of the listeners that are like, okay. I need more from this guy. Where can people find you if they wanna learn more?

Mike Moll: Yeah. Absolutely. Best place would just be my website, mikemoll.co I've got a podcast and a newsletter and all those things, but, you know, people consume in different ways. And so if there's something that seems interesting or attractive to you over there, that's where you'll find everything.

Carly Ries: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been wonderful.

Joe Rando: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Carly Ries: Listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. As always, we would love that five star review. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, including YouTube, and we will see you next time on The Aspiring Solopreneur. You may be going solo in business, but that doesn't mean you're alone.

In fact, millions of people are in your shoes, running a one person business and figuring it out as they go. So why not connect with them and learn from each other's successes and failures? At LifeStarr, we're creating a one person business community where you can go to meet and get advice from other solopreneurs. Be sure to join in on the conversations at community.lifestarr.com.