The Conversation-First Sales Approach You Need To Implement Now

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Shut your eyes and think of a stereotypical salesman.

If you’re like me (Carly), you’re imagination may have immediately transported you to a car dealership, or a person with a briefcase ready to give you a pitch.

That’s how I always used to think about sales, and frankly, why I was always turned off to that profession.

But then, over time, I started meeting people who revolutionized the industry, and turned my original connotation into one that thinks of people who can be relied on as trusty sources of helpful information.

Tom Martin, is one of those people.

Tom is a seasoned expert in turning conversations into customers, with 30 years of experience revolutionizing sales processes for companies ranging from startups to global brands. His insights have been featured in Advertising Age Magazine and Forbes, and he has spoken at major industry conferences like MarketingProfs and Content Marketing World. He is the author of The Invisible Sale, where he explores the science of Propinquity in relationship building and sales. He also has a signature program called Painless Prospecting, which emphasizes respectful, trust-building sales strategies over aggressive tactics.

We invited him on the show to discuss things like:

• Common misconceptions solopreneurs have about selling, and how they can overcome them
• The role mindset plays in becoming successful in sales, especially for those who think they can't sell
• What the concept of Painless Prospecting is and how it can revolutionize your approach to sales
• Strategies for solopreneurs to build a reputation that precedes them and ensures a constant flow of prospects
• Advice Tom would give to solopreneurs who are currently facing significant business challenge

Plus so much more. So be sure to tune in!

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Connect with Tom Martin

• Connect with Tom on LinkedIn.
• Visit Converse Digital.

Favorite Quote About Success:

“The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step” - Lao Tzu

Being a solopreneur is awesome but it’s not easy. It's hard to get noticed. Most business advice is for bigger companies, and you're all alone...until now. LifeStarr's SoloSuite Intro gives you free education, community, and tools to build a thriving one-person business. 

So, if you are lacking direction, having a hard time generating leads, or are having trouble keeping up with everything you have to do, or even just lonely running a company of one, click here to check out SoloSuite Intro!

About Tom Martin

With 30 years of experience turning conversations into customers, Tom Martin has worked with firms of all sizes, revolutionizing sales processes worldwide. His insights have been featured in Advertising Age Magazine, Forbes, and shared at major industry conferences like MarketingProfs and Content Marketing World. As the author of "The Invisible Sale," he dives into Propinquity, the science behind relationship building and trust-based selling. His signature program, Painless Prospecting, embodies these principles, transforming traditional sales tactics into respectful, trust-building strategies. When he's not working, you can find him on a bike ride or enjoying a good IPA on his boat.

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on Apple Podcasts Thanks!

Episode Transcript

Carly Ries: 00:00

Shut your eyes and think of a stereotypical salesman. If you're like me, your imagination may have immediately transported you to a car dealership or a person with a briefcase ready to give you a pitch. That's how I always used to think about sales and frankly why I was always turned off to that profession. But then over time, I started meeting people who revolutionized the industry and turned my original connotation into one that thinks of people who can be relied on as trusty sources of helpful information. Tom Martin is one of those people.

Carly Ries: 00:33

Tom is a seasoned expert in turning conversations into customers and has over 30 years of experience revolutionizing sales processes for companies ranging from startups to global brands. His insights have been featured in Advertising Age Magazine and Forbes, and he's spoken at major industry conferences like Marketing Pros and Content Marketing World. He's the author of the invisible sale where he explores the science of propinquity and relationship building and sales. And he also has a signature program called painless prospecting, which emphasizes respectful trust building sales strategies over aggressive tactics like I originally thought of. We invited him on our show to discuss things like common misconceptions solopreneurs have about selling and how to overcome them, the role mindset plays in becoming successful in sales, especially for those who think they can't sell, what the concept of painless prospecting is, and how can revolutionize your approach to sales, strategies for solopreneurs to build a reputation that precedes them, that ensures a constant flow of leads, and then advice Tom would give to solopreneurs who are currently facing significant business challenges.

Carly Ries: 01:42

Oh my goodness. We did discover all this and so much more, so be sure to tune in. You're listening to the aspiring solopreneur, the podcast for those just taking the bold step or even just thinking about taking that step into the world of solo entrepreneurship. My name is Carly Rees, and my co host Joe Rando and I are your guides to navigating this crazy, but awesome journey as a company of 1. We take pride in being part of Lifestar, a digital hub dedicated to all aspects of solopreneurship that has empowered and educated countless solopreneurs looking to build a business that resonates with their life's ambitions.

Carly Ries: 02:20

We help people work to live, not live to work. And if you're looking for a get rich quick scheme, this is not the show for you. So if you're eager to gain valuable insights from industry experts on running a business the right way the first time around, or want to learn from the missteps of solopreneurs who've paved the way before you, then stick around. We've got your back because flying solo in business doesn't mean you're alone. Okay.

Carly Ries: 02:42

So before we jump into this episode, I just have to share this new free offer we have called the solo suite starter. Being a solopreneur is awesome, but it's not easy. It's hard to get noticed and most business advice is for bigger companies, and you're all alone until now. Lifestar's solo suite gives you free education, community, and tools to build a thriving one person business. So if you're lacking direction, having a hard time generating leads, having trouble keeping up with everything you have to do, or even if you're just lonely running a company of 1, be sure to check out Solo Suite Starter at lifestar with 2 hours.com and click on products and pricing at the top menu.

Carly Ries: 03:21

It's the first one in the drop down. Again, it's totally free, so check it out at lifestar with 2 hours.com. Click on products and pricing, and it's the first one in the menu. Hope to see you there. Joe, we were just saying offline that time and time again, we get so many questions about sales, from community members, even not community community members, just solopreneurs in general.

Carly Ries: 03:43

And, Tom, I'm so excited to have you here today because no matter how many sales professionals we've spoken to on this podcast, which actually aren't as many as I would think, there's always a unique take. And you literally just said 5 seconds ago before we hit that record button, most people get into business because they're good at something, not because they're good at sales. And I don't think true words have ever been said in this capacity. So I wanna know before we get into the the meat and potatoes of this conversation, what inspired you to start training solopreneurs and small businesses in sales in the first place?

Tom Martin: 04:20

For me, the switch flipped, gosh, I don't know, 5 or maybe 6 years ago. I was doing a talk here in New Orleans, for a group, and it was titled, how to sell when you hate selling. And the audience was, you know, solopreneurs, freelancers, stuff like that, who obviously didn't feel like they were very good at it or didn't understand how to do it. And so I went through and I did my talk and I got done and a young man came up and said, I just want to tell you, I really liked your talk. He said, but, more importantly, you've inspired me to believe that I can sell.

Tom Martin: 04:50

I just started my own little ad agency, like, 6 months ago And, you know, getting clients has been difficult because I don't feel like I'm really good at it. And he said, but, you know, listening to you, I'm inspired. I feel like, yeah, I actually can do this. I've just been thinking about it or going about it the wrong way. And I'm really excited.

Tom Martin: 05:06

I can't wait to go and and and try. Like, I believe that I can maybe make a run of this. And, I don't I mean, next to the to getting married or the birth of my kids, that was probably the greatest moment in my life. I was like, wow. I actually just maybe helped change someone's life for the better and helped maybe a business that would have otherwise faltered and failed, stick around and grow, all because I helped somebody just change their point of view on a topic that so many people, I think, just have the wrong point of view on.

Tom Martin: 05:36

So it got me to thinking, like, hey, this is kinda cool. I wonder if I could find a way to make a business out of doing this. So it's really it was inspirational moment for me to realize that I could help other people change maybe the trajectory of their lives. Then it was just, can I make a business out of this? My firm is a was started to be a social media agency.

Tom Martin: 05:56

We did B2C social media. So I've always done B2B and business development. It's always been a sideline. And a couple years ago, I decided, you know what? I really want more of those moments.

Tom Martin: 06:06

So let's see if we can do more. Can we develop courses? Can we find ways to make the training less expensive so that we can get it out to more people? And that's what we've been doing the last couple years. And so far, the mortgage payments have still been made.

Carly Ries: 06:17

That's great. Well and it's funny because you you said and I I realized I could help people. But what's so funny is time and time again when people hear the word sales, they immediately jump to car salesman. No matter what they're selling, it's like, okay. Car salesman is sales.

Carly Ries: 06:32

And that just simply isn't true. So can you debunk some common misconceptions solopreneurs have about selling, and we'll just start there and go from whatever you say? Sure.

Tom Martin: 06:42

Sure. The number one thing, and actually, I I encourage people to do it, is go get a dictionary and look up the definition to selling, and then go look up the definition to helping. And what you'll find is that they're almost identical. The helping definition might even be more salesy than the selling. And that's that's really all it is.

Tom Martin: 07:02

If you just change your mindset from my job is to sell you, to make you do something, to persuade or coerce you to, you know, buy something for me or believe something I believe, And you change it to know my job is to help you. My job is to help you figure out you have a need, you have a pain point, you need a service. My job is to help you overcome that, to solve that problem, even if that means I'm not the one to do it. But I'm going to be the person who refers you to the to the right resource. And when you change your mindset and you think, you know, my job is really just to help this person make a good buying decision, it takes so much of that used car salesman out of the equation.

Tom Martin: 07:42

Change it gives you permission to just be human and just have conversations. And if you manage those conversations correctly, some percentage of them are gonna turn into customers, clients. And then, lo and behold, you've sold without feeling like a sleazy used car salesman. And that's that's the biggest thing I is that I really try to help people understand. If you'll just make that one change in your mindset, an entire new world opens up to you in terms of how you can go about selling and growing your business.

Joe Rando: 08:08

That's why I say I I lived this in my last startup, and it was such a it was just such a it was we hired actually hired a sales guy, and his attitude was, you know, if we can't help you, if we're not the right solution, I'm gonna send you to the right solution. And he would send them we were the high priced kind of tech leaders and a lot of people that came to us couldn't afford us, didn't need us. And he would send them down to these other companies. And then the next thing, they're referring people back over to us. And that it was, you know, it was Absolutely.

Joe Rando: 08:37

My It was it was great.

Tom Martin: 08:39

My first role in business development back in the nineties, I was the biggest agency here in New Orleans. And so we would always get calls because everybody knew our name. And, you know, so often we couldn't we were just they didn't have enough budget to justify us. I had a roster of folks that I would flip them to. And, I cannot tell you how many times I would get a call months or maybe years later, and I would ask, how did you why are you calling us?

Tom Martin: 09:03

And they'd say, well, I don't know if you remember my friend, Joe. He was really too small. You gave him a couple of people. He ended up hiring him. His greatest thing.

Tom Martin: 09:10

He always thought that was so refreshing. You were just honestly trying to help him make a good decision. That's the kind of person that's the kind of agency I want working on my business, and I can't afford it. And great. Because now you're entering, you know, you enter that conversation.

Tom Martin: 09:25

I didn't even have to sell at that point. All I did was close. The guy already was kind of convinced we had the talent. He could afford us. He liked how we rolled.

Tom Martin: 09:35

I that's you don't even have to sell at that point. You're just answering questions and making sure it'll work out and then coming to a contract and, bingo, you've got a new client. You didn't even really have to work that hard to get them. You just had to be a good person.

Joe Rando: 09:46

You know, I I go back to this guy, Jay Acunzo with He's on LinkedIn, and we've had him on the podcast focused on storytelling. But he said something once, and I repeat this all the time because I think it's so profound. And he said, it's really about 2 things, build trust and then inspire action. And when you build the trust, you don't have to work that hard at inspiring the action. Right?

Joe Rando: 10:08

And that's what you did. You built trust by referring people to the right solution. And the next thing is, like, these people are out for helping. So that trust building that could take months is instantaneous. Yeah.

Tom Martin: 10:21

I would add I would add a third thing, and that is is credibility. There are a lot of people I know, like, and trust. I would never hire for anything because there's just not a credible solution. So, I think that's the 4th part. And that's, honestly, that's a part a lot of people forget about.

Tom Martin: 10:35

They just assume because they work for a company or have a certain title that they're instantaneously thought of as credible. And that's just not how people work. It's not how the human brain works. And so, a lot of, you know, a lot of what I teach people is how do you build that credibility while also building that trust so that you're not just top of mind, but top of mind preferred when it comes time for someone to hire a trainer or hire a coach or, you know, hire you were we were talking about beforehand, you're remodeling, you know, hiring a remodeler or interior designer. When you can come into that conversation pre vetted and almost prequalified, it's it's just such an easier conversation to have.

Joe Rando: 11:17

Can you walk me through the, like, the distinction that you're making between trust and credibility? I mean, I I guess in my brain, they kind of seem to kind of overlap, but and you've clearly got a you've thought this through more than I have. Can you just kind of bar

Tom Martin: 11:30

through that? The symbol is is trust is the belief that you're gonna do the right thing. Credibility is the belief that you know what the right thing is to do. That's the only difference between the 2. But they're they're intertwined.

Tom Martin: 11:43

Right? You're not gonna you're well, you might hire some people who know what to do that you don't really trust just because there's no better option available to you or, you know, we that that happens. But, ideally, you're gonna you're gonna buy from people that you trust. They're gonna do the right thing. They have your best interests at heart, but that they know.

Tom Martin: 11:59

I mean, like, my joke's always, hey. Look. I love my mother. I know, like, and trust her. I would never hire her to write a marketing plan for my company.

Tom Martin: 12:08

I just don't think she's a credible marketing consultant. That's the difference, you know? And that's the part, again, people assume, oh, well, you know, I can trust me and I work for an agency or I'm an electrician or I'm a this. If I don't really think you're credible, if I and this is especially true for brand new entrepreneurs and young entrepreneurs. You know, when I have a young entrepreneur call in on me and they're 30, 25, 30 years old and they've only been out of college for a few years and, you know, I'm 55, they they might be very trustworthy, but they their age alone might create a credibility issue for me because in my mind, I see, well, there's my son, there's my daughter who's the same age.

Tom Martin: 12:49

And do I really trust that this person do I do I believe that they have the experience and knowledge to truly do whatever it is I need to have done? And that's a that's a challenge when you're young. It can be a challenge when you're older or when you're trying to move into a new marketplace or a new category that you don't have experience in, and you're saying, no. My experience transfers. You have a lot of people go, I don't know if it does.

Joe Rando: 13:12

When I was young I was young, I used to wish that I had some gray hair, and dreams do come true.

Tom Martin: 13:20

Hey. And I I used to I remember I remember when I first when I first started having children, it was hilarious how much how much wiser I became to my clients just because I was married and had kids, which was the silliest thing I'd ever heard of. But, again, we we make our we make those decisions about credibility and stuff based on on different inputs. But it's really true. I know, like, I used to work a lot in the tourism space, and one of the big hurdles was that my agency was not a tourism specialist.

Tom Martin: 13:45

But in that space, there are a number of just that's all those agencies did was tourism. And there were a lot of people that felt like, oh, well, you're not a tourism specialist. You can't help us. And it was like, actually, I think I can help you more because I'm not gonna bring you ideas from outside of the tourism industry. You're not right now, you're in an echo chamber.

Tom Martin: 14:03

But, again, it was a credibility issue. It wasn't that they didn't know, like, and trust me. It's just they felt like because I wasn't one of them, I couldn't possibly understand their business the way somebody who was, you know, one of them or a former one of them. So that's really where that credibility thing comes in. It can trip people up.

Tom Martin: 14:20

It really can it can make it difficult for you to win business that you're fully qualified to handle.

Joe Rando: 14:25

Very cool. Very cool insight and perspective. Thank you.

Carly Ries: 14:28

Yeah. On the right yeah. Yeah. You you do even skip a beat when you do ask for the clarification. I was like, oh, well, I got this.

Tom Martin: 14:34

I might have had that question asked to be one of the best before.

Carly Ries: 14:37

Well, Tom, would you say that these you have a concept called aimless prospecting. Are these kind of the foundations of it, or how has that revolutionized your sales process?

Tom Martin: 14:47

Well, it revolutionized it in that I realized after the failure of my first firm that the the quiz essential reason why the firm failed other than hurricane Katrina was that it my business development program is all based on who I knew. If I didn't know you, if you weren't in my database, if I didn't have your phone number, your email address, or your or your physical address, I really couldn't contact you. I couldn't market myself to you, etcetera. What painless prospecting is all about is flipping that model on its head. It's I'm far less concerned these days about who I know, and I'm much, much more concerned and focused on who knows me.

Tom Martin: 15:22

And that's painless prospecting is all about becoming known for knowledge, knowledge that you spread around the Internet, around the world, people find it. It's like little cobblestones. They find this cobblestone, that cobblestone. They find enough cobblestones because you you place them closely together, builds a little pathway back to your website. They vet you.

Tom Martin: 15:39

Next thing you know, you're getting a phone call or an inbound, off your off your website saying, hey. I've read this or I heard you speak or I did this. I I think you can help us. Can we talk? That's painless prospect.

Tom Martin: 15:50

I didn't really have to do anything. I was essentially cold calling with content because I'm an introvert. I hate cold calling. I'm a terrible networker. I'm I'm the guy on the side of the room who's, you know, got way too much email he has to solve on his phone.

Tom Martin: 16:04

And, for me, this process was a game changer because now there was there I would never again find myself in a world without prospects because somebody somewhere always needs what you sell. They just need to know who you are and and how to find you. And that's what that's what this process is about. By using knowledge and content, really helping people figure out, you know, where do I park you in my brain's parking lot? You know, what parking slot do you go into?

Tom Martin: 16:33

And then when they need whatever that is you sell, you're the you're the person they think of instantly. And if you're not the only person they call, maybe they're in a in a company or an industry that they have to do some sort of RFP or multi bid, you go into the process as the favorite horse. And and that can be very beneficial if you've ever gone through an RFP process. You can you know, you know, if you have the inside track, it changes the ballgame considerably.

Joe Rando: 17:01

Sometimes you get to help write the actual requirements.

Tom Martin: 17:04

Oh my god. Isn't that the timing? That you love that. You you pretty much won before you've even pitched. But even if not, you know, you're you at least hopefully makes you top of stack so that you're the first response on the top of the stack, or you're the the when they when they go to have the discussion with the the the buying team, whoever is leading the the processes.

Tom Martin: 17:23

You know, I really think it's these Converse Digital guys or anybody else. And then, you know, maybe there's 5 agencies in the pitch. Okay. Well, now we made it a 5050 instead of a 21 out of 5. You're not gonna win every one, but you're gonna win hell of a lot more of them, frankly.

Tom Martin: 17:37

And so that's the whole idea is is really changing the way you prospect, treating it more like marketing and less like sales, and it really does. It it opens you up. It it gives and if you're somebody who's an introvert or doesn't like cold calling like me, it gives you a tool that all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait. I can sell. And it creates a flywheel.

Tom Martin: 17:55

As long as you keep that flywheel spinning, the leads will continue to come off, and, you'll you'll always have, a source of new leads, a new a new business.

Carly Ries: 18:04

You're speaking our inbound language. Yeah. The flywheel, I've got little keywords here and there, and I I love that. So, Tom, from my perspective, it sounds to me that a lot of your success and a lot of the success of your clients simply comes from mindset shift and really just reframing how you view sales and and taking a different approach. Do you have any tips for people that are having a hard time going from the traditional mindset to the one that you discuss and just how to really get that ingrained in their brain?

Tom Martin: 18:36

Easiest tip is the next time they're involved in a conversation with somebody who they feel is a prospect or maybe they know is a prospect because the person's actively engaged in in soliciting bids or or trying to buy something is enter that conversation and try not to talk. Just ask question after question after question. Keep diving deeper. You know, it's the old Toyota 5 whys kind of an approach. Keep diving deeper.

Tom Martin: 19:04

Keep diving deeper. Keep probing, keep trying to understand. And as you get in, validate and acknowledge what that person is saying to you. And if you have an example, for instance, like, Oh, that's interesting. That reminds me of what we did for so and so.

Tom Martin: 19:22

Or, That reminds me of a project we did 3 years ago, or whatever the case might be. What you'll find is that by focusing on asking questions and just truly being curious, the conversation will just lead itself. And you'll get the opportunity to say, Oh, well, that reminds me of this, or, Oh, we did that long and now you're selling. You just don't know you're selling. You feel like you're kind of interviewing.

Tom Martin: 19:46

The other thing is the other person will feel like, wow, that was an amazing conversation. That person's the most incredible conversationalist because at the end of the day, everybody's favorite topic is themselves, especially if they're looking to solve a problem. They wanna talk about their problem. And if you can, you know, just kind of, oh, well, have you thought about doing this? You know, this worked for somebody.

Tom Martin: 20:06

Again, you're selling, but you're not selling. You're just helping them think through their problem, think through their solution set that they need. Oftentimes, you'll help them realize a blind spot, something they didn't think to question, didn't think to ask. And now if you're the person that that you know, I call it a keto selling. You know, if you're the person who who helps them realize that, now all of a sudden they start thinking, what else didn't I think to ask?

Tom Martin: 20:31

What else didn't I know? And you're the person who is now the the sensei. You know, you're the one that started leading them down this path of knowledge and building trust and building credibility. I think they'll find that oftentimes at the end of the path will be a contract or, you know, a new customer.

Joe Rando: 20:46

I'm telling I just want to weigh in that, you know, AIM, and to everything you just said because, I mean, we've all had somebody come to pitch us. Right? And they sit down. They got their PowerPoint. They start talking.

Joe Rando: 20:57

And every time you try to ask a question, they feel they act like you're interrupting them. And the at the end of it, you're like, they don't know anything about me or what I'm trying to do. And Absolutely. It's you know?

Tom Martin: 21:07

And they don't really care because you get the you get the impression very quickly. You're just a transaction, And nobody wants to be a transaction. Everybody wants to be a relationship. Everybody wants to be important. And just, you know, that little flip, just getting a person not to feel like a transaction, you just separated yourself from probably 95% of the sales people that are calling on that individual or that company.

Carly Ries: 21:31

Mhmm. Oh, and this

Tom Martin: 21:32

Love it. Love it.

Carly Ries: 21:33

Yes. This is giving me all the warm and fuzzies with sales that I don't always get with sales. But with that, so it sounds like this is for people starting their businesses. A lot of our audiences are people that are aspiring to be solopreneurs are gonna jump in so like this is a great way to begin and I am gonna take Tom's advice and roll with it, but we also have people in our audience that are struggling in their business and maybe they've taken some antiquated sales approaches and just feel stuck. What advice would you have for them from a sales perspective or maybe even not a sales perspective, to to get themselves out when they're facing unique business challenges?

Carly Ries: 22:13

Well,

Tom Martin: 22:14

in terms of, like, how to work through a unique business challenge, my advice is always, 1st and foremost, just stop, take a deep breath, and give your give yourself as an opportunity to just process whatever's happening. Maybe you lost a big client. Maybe you've had a production snafu. I mean, there's something really major. Give yourself some time to just process that feeling and kind of own it and say, okay.

Tom Martin: 22:40

This because you need to get to a place where it's, alright, this has happened. This is not good. But you need to get the emotion out of it and say, okay. Well, now it's time to try to solve this. And then my advice is always go someplace quiet.

Tom Martin: 22:52

No computers, no iPads, nothing that can beep at you. And take a pad of paper or a notebook or something, and then just sit and think about the problem and then start writing down every idea, every possible solution, every person who might be able to help you, every resource you might have access to, no matter how crazy, how far fetched, whatever, just do a mind dump. And when you feel like you've exhausted that mind dump, look and start seeing if there are dots you can connect. And oftentimes, you'll start to see the beginning of a potential solution. It might not be the solution, but it's a potential.

Tom Martin: 23:30

And then once you feel like you have 1 or 2 really decent potential solutions, do it. Pull the trigger. Don't wait for perfection. Don't overanalyze it. You know, doing something is usually better than nothing.

Tom Martin: 23:45

And so and it might be it might not be the ultimate solution. It might not even work. But I don't know about you all, but just the feeling like I can't impact what's happening to me is a depress it creates a depression, creates a feeling of, like, failure before you fail. But where I'm at least believing that I'm creating action designed to to change that outcome to what I want it, just mentally puts you in a better place. I always laugh if you ever watch, like, war movies.

Tom Martin: 24:17

When the shooting starts, some some lieutenant, some car somebody in charge always yells to his men, move, because standing still is death. And that's what I always tell people, I say, just move. It may not be the right movement, but it just the movement itself will create some some, momentum. It'll at least put you in a good headspace, and you'd be surprised. Sometimes you may stumble around, but eventually, you're like, oh, wait.

Tom Martin: 24:39

Here's the solution I need, and off to the races. Now you've now you've fixed the problem. And I you know, sales is really no different. If you're you know, when I hit, you know, when I hit the wall sometime where it's like, wow, man, our our our lead gen is really down. We're not really getting the kind of leads that we want, or it's just things aren't maybe I'm not closing.

Tom Martin: 24:56

I hit a I hit a rut where I I can't con convert a lot. Again, it's it's looking at looking at who who who we have opportunities with and and seeing, you know, who's who do I think I can close the quickest and easiest? Even if it's a really inexpensive, you know, non long term type project, it creates a win. It creates a win that I can feel good about, that I can celebrate, and wins create momentum. And slowly but surely, that momentum will speed things back up, and we'll get back to normal.

Carly Ries: 25:25

Yeah. That it it's funny because we've only been talking for about 20 minutes, maybe a little longer, but during that time, I'm like, okay. No like trust credibility. I I am totally on board with everything what you're saying. And so, Tom, I want to give you a second to be able to plug yourself.

Carly Ries: 25:43

You have, a great course called prospecting and pixels. You offer so many things. If people want to work with you or learn more, how can they do that?

Tom Martin: 25:53

They can go to Converse Digital. There's a navigation bar that says what we do, and, you know, it's broken down by the different communities that we serve. Under each one is, do we have a course? Do we have coaching? Do we have workshops?

Tom Martin: 26:07

All of the various options. There's also, under what we think, I don't know, 3, maybe 400, blog posts that have been written over the last 14 years, many of which speak about sales or marketing, and they're free. They can knock themselves out. We also have webinars and things like that that that are free that people can can sign up for. So I would just invite them to go to Converse Digital and and bounce around a little bit.

Tom Martin: 26:31

If they like what they find, they can sign up for my newsletter. I try to send it once a week. I'm not always. I can be bad about that, which is bad. I shouldn't do that, but it's it's it is what it is.

Tom Martin: 26:43

And they'll they'll get something from us every time that we feel like we've either found or written something help.

Carly Ries: 26:49

That sounds amazing. Well, you help so many people find success through your sales methods. So we ask all of our guests this question. What is your favorite quote about success?

Tom Martin: 27:00

I never say it right. It is every every journey begins with a step, or every 1,000 mile journey begins with a step, that yeah. To me

Joe Rando: 27:11

journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step. I believe it.

Tom Martin: 27:15

Joe. Look at Joe for the save. Ding ding ding. Yeah. I used to think I would know my own quote.

Tom Martin: 27:21

But I I I love that because to me, it it is the essence of, of entrepreneurship. It's the essence of everything. You you you can't get anything done standing still. And, sometimes you just gotta put one foot in front of the other and then repeat, rinse and repeat, keep going. Next thing you know, you've you've built a successful business.

Carly Ries: 27:43

Well, that goes hand in hand with move move move.

Tom Martin: 27:46

Yeah. I'm very much of an action movement kinda guy. I'm not much of a fanning still. It's not not in my bloodstream.

Carly Ries: 27:52

There you go. We'll put both in our show notes, and people can choose move move move or the other one.

Tom Martin: 27:57

There you go.

Carly Ries: 27:58

That sounds great. Well, Tom we have so appreciated having you on today. It's so refreshing to hear your sales approach. I know these days when I hear cold calling or things like that like like I know it's so worse for some people but it's just it gives me the cringe factor so when I hear somebody who is successful like you and helps others be successful through these practices it's just like just call me it just makes you feel so much more confident in approaching sales and kinda like a I got this. I don't have to get really far out of my comfort zone to make it happen.

Carly Ries: 28:31

Well, thank

Tom Martin: 28:31

you. That's that's that's the goal. That's what we hope to do is is help people realize you absolutely can do this. Look. The ability to sell and persuade others is a superpower.

Tom Martin: 28:40

If you can develop it, you're always gonna have a job or own a comp I mean, you're always gonna be you're always gonna be able to make money.

Carly Ries: 28:46

And I don't care what you do. Every business needs to know how to sell. Absolutely. Otherwise, you'll have a business.

Tom Martin: 28:53

That's true. So it's it's a it's a core it's a core, but we can all do it. We just some of us said don't believe we can do it. So I'm glad you feel like maybe, your listeners will, pick up a few tips today that'll help them maybe believe that they can do it too because they can.

Carly Ries: 29:08

Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you again. Yes.

Joe Rando: 29:10

Thanks, Tom.

Carly Ries: 29:11

Yeah. And listeners, I hope you found this just as helpful as we did, and you have that little warm hug about sales at this point like I do. But also another thing that would give me a very warm hug virtually is those 5 star reviews. The subscribe is please, subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform, leave those 5 star reviews, give us feedback, let us know what you like, what you don't like, we so appreciate it because we'd love putting on these shows for you. So do those tasks and otherwise we will see you next week on another episode of the aspiring solopreneur.

Carly Ries: 29:43

Have a good one. You may be going solo in business, but that doesn't mean you're alone. In fact, millions of people are in your shoes, running a one person business and figuring it out as they go. So why not connect with them and learn from each other's successes and failures? At LifeStar, we're creating a one person business community where you can go to meet and get advice from other solopreneurs.

Carly Ries: 30:06

Be sure to join in on the conversations at community.lifestar.com. That's community.lifestar star with 2

Tom Martin: 30:16

r's.com.